Anti-war attempted dance party/blockade/disruption downtown
anon, 21.03.2008 08:40
Around 5:00 today, anarchists and anti-authoritarians from the Milwaukee area and around the Midwest gathered to protest the war in downtown Milwaukee. With banners that had slogans like “Dance, Dance, Revolution,” and “End War, Dance More!” around 50 people moved to take over Wisconsin & Water street in a combination dance party/critical mass/reclaim the streets/anti-war march.
After about 15 minutes holding the intersection, with only minor altercations with businessmen and cars, the protesters moved east on Wisconsin Ave, and marched for a few blocks before disbanding. They left fences, newspaper boxes, and dumpsters in their wake as they marched—bringing to mind slogans like “bring the war home” and “no more business as usual”. After the radicals disbanded, four were arrested as they walked the streets of downtown; two of them were charged with disorderly conduct. They are scheduled to be released early tomorrow morning. People will be dong jail support and bringing leftover Mexican food for those arrested.
legal update for 3-21-08
21.03.2008 - 09:28
Four People attested at downtown Milwaukee anti-war protest. They are being charged with disorderly conduct, and bails set. They should be details and updates so those who are interested can help those who were arrested posted on the site soon.
anon>
who are you trying to reach?
21.03.2008 - 09:48
What were the goals of this action?
To "bring the war home"? To disrupt "business as usual"?
To show the city, or the police, or whoever to "expect resistance"?
Well we could have an entire discussion about your goals--or lack there of--but let's just debrief instead:
This "dance more" shit is only appealing to hipsters and white, middle-to-upper-class self-described "anarchists", or a combination thereof. The proof of this lies in the fact that there were no other community groups working with you all. You all might say "that's because we didn't invite anybody else", which is a big problem in itself.
A few people got arrested--how very valiant. What an adventure, congratulations. To all of you who did so, please keep in mind how people of color are terrorized by the police daily right here in our community, it's not a joke or fun for them, and their parents can't pay their tickets (many of them are parents themselves).
You all received very negative media coverage. We can save the debate about the impossibility of positive media coverage, because i know that's what yall are thinking, but i won't get into it now. You successfully turned off hundreds possibly thousands of people to the anti-war movement (which you are not a part of, "movement" implying community support)--congratulations again.
Please consider this question: are you all down for a selfless struggle against the war or are you kids "having fun"?
dude>
sour grapes
21.03.2008 - 10:16
pretty sure this "dude" that writes comments about us being privileged upper-class winers uses way too many vague questions and way too many quotation marks. if he/she didn't see the fliers then they probably are just sour about not feeling invited to have some fun in the streets. the same types of people that will say "every little bit counts" one day and criticize people the next day for going out and disrupting the minds of robotic capitalist slaves--regardless of knowing whether or not we're white, privileged, or from different classes (as if it mattered). so, wine all you will on the internet. that just shows the powers of "the movement", as vague as that is. anarchists are anarchists and solidarity is more important to me than some ideological stalemate...dude, you're invited to any actions we do...and hey, you can write what you will, but if you actually participated in directly affecting the world i'm sure you'd have as much fun as we do. and insurrection, disruption, and even revolution should all be fun. we must keep in mind we're not just anti-war, or absolutists, or for that matter perfect leftists/liberals...we're human and anarchists, so i'll say this, 'cause i don't use a computer ever and felt that i needed to actually defend my friends: no more hierarchy, more fun, dancing, revolution, insurrection, solidarity, mutual aid, and most of all love for each other.
no more blogging. no more bickering. more action.
olive eater>
 Homepage:: http://www.submedia.tv
Dearest "Dude"
21.03.2008 - 10:24
Firstly, yes. The intention of this was to disrupt business as usual. Surely, only for a moment, but again, it is about building a praxis that can permanently disrupt the dreadful economics of capital. There are goals; but our goals have nothing to do with "appealing to the masses" or appeasing authoritarians such as yourself.
"This "dance more" shit is only appealing to hipsters and white, middle-to-upper-class self-described "anarchists", or a combination thereof."
Wrong. Firstly, there were almost no upper class white people in this group. Almost everyone was of a working class background, including several people of color. Secondly, the class and racial make-up of the group has nothing to do with this. That is a strawman arguement (and one that you make everytime you post, boring asshole).
"The proof of this lies in the fact that there were no other community groups working with you all. You all might say "that's because we didn't invite anybody else", which is a big problem in itself."
Actually, people from lots of groups were involved in this. And more meaningfully, dozens of individuals participated. Sorry that we didn't attempt to appeal to your stale "coalitions". Oh hey, how successful have your mass marches been? They've been happening in the same place for five years now, using the same rhetoric and tactics (but with less and less attendance). Has it worked yet?
"A few people got arrested--how very valiant. What an adventure, congratulations. To all of you who did so, please keep in mind how people of color are terrorized by the police daily right here in our community, it's not a joke or fun for them, and their parents can't pay their tickets (many of them are parents themselves)."
Shockingly, these people won't have their tickets paid by their parents either. Your assumptions only make you look childish and ridiculous. And again, people of color were also at this. Stop assuming that only white people are capable of resistance. Your racism isn't even veiled.
And speaking of police brutality, what have you done lately to destroy the system that mandates both police and brutality? Oh thats right, your mass marches coordinate very closesly with the police.
"You successfully turned off hundreds possibly thousands of people to the anti-war movement (which you are not a part of, "movement" implying community support)--congratulations again."
Well, if the "anti-war movement" means holding signs and chanting at ritualized and boring mass marches, then good. The anti-war movement turns people away from the anti-war movement. Haven't you noticed that your rallies get smaller and smaller each year? So yes, we probably did show the uselessness of your tactics. But everyone involved with this left more inspired and more ready to confront the state and capital in larger and more meaningful ways.
"Please consider this question: are you all down for a selfless struggle against the war or are you kids "having fun"?"
Both. Resistance can be both extremely fun and liberating. If you see fun and struggle as mutually exclusive then you reveal yourself as the passionless and impotent person you are.
Have fun with next years rally!
dude>
Owen Sykes>
proud anti-protester
21.03.2008 - 10:26
I was one of the "businessmen" who these hooligans ticked off. With the help of another gentleman, we attempted to move the dumpster with the "Dance Revolution" banner so that innocent drivers could get home.
The party broke up as soon as the first siren was heard. Several people at the corner were very angry at the disturbance and yelled as they fled the scene.
One kid yelled at me for almost a block because I said "no" when he asked to be excused for bumping into me. Why was he so angry??? He can vote if he doesn't like something.
I know several people in the armed forces including a brave sergeant from Eau Claire who lost a limb. They deserve our support and respect. Not the same for these college kids on spring break.
If a peaceful petition-signing was held on the sidewalk at this corner it would have been much more effective. I would have signed it. Instead, I'm anti- anti-war.
I only saw one rioter arrested for trying to throw more of the magazine stands onto the road as the initial party was breaking up. He was destroying property, obstructing traffic and not peacefully walking around after the protest was over.
Stop destroying the Recruiting Center too.
RunningOnEmpty>
.
21.03.2008 - 10:30
if this happened around 5 PM around the time when most offices are closed or closing, what did it disrupt?
bvttt>
How can we please you?
21.03.2008 - 10:54
to the dude, cops, capitalism...
WHAT DO YOU WANT FROM US?!?!?!?!?!
HOW CAN WE APPEASE YOU?
oh wait, we don't want that...we want change. (and not the kind that voting obama can offer us...or hillary for that matter. doubtful that voting could even help this at all either.) suppose we'll just stick to internet critiques. every little bit counts. nah, i'll just ignore people who have extreme comfort levels within capitalism and racism... i'm with you on this one owen sykes. DESTROY ABSOLUTISM AND THE MORAL PURITY OF PACIFISM!!!! nothing will ever get done otherwise.
olive eater>
Homepage:: http://www.mytypewriter.com
We're reaching for the stars, of course
21.03.2008 - 11:02
I believe the goals of this action were to organize something different than a march up the sidewalk and listening to speakers say essentially what they have been saying for five years, as well as organize something that could be both fun and disruptive while allowing for people of varying comfort levels to participate. It also was an attempt to bring back some of the energy of the early protests right after the war started back to the movement. A number of groups were reached out to during the planning stages, but with promotion being done primarily through flier drops and word of mouth, who you reach is pretty hit or miss. This is a problem and has been for some time, but don't assume we aren't trying to reach other groups. And if they aren't necessarily interested in the same type of action we are, I don't see why that is a problem. Different people have different interests and goals with their actions.
I'm amazed you are so familiar with the class and racial backgrounds of everyone involved, although I can tell you right away that you're wrong. The people involved in organizing and promoting and being there come from a variety of economic and ethnic places. There is some homogeneity, but I don't think seeking diversity for diversity's sake is a better alternative. And its interesting you suggest dancing only appeals to the white middle-upper class, since it seems to be one of the few things that can universally bring people together.
All of the arrests happened well after the action ended and nobody is celebrating them or thinking they were "valiant" or noble. Getting arrested sucks, we all know it and I doubt any of us like when it happens. I don't and I know nobody but myself or my friends will be getting me out. And I don't see how the cops being assholes in this scenario and arresting people because of how they look takes away from the fact that they do it every day in other communities. It reinforces that if anything. And I'm sure you know anarchists are well aware of police repression in other communities- they participated in the large marches against police brutality in Milwaukee, not to mention all over the country/world.
What media coverage are you talking about, exactly? I haven't seen any articles on any of the major papers' or TV stations' websites. Again, even if what you say is true, it doesn't really matter. The point is to get out that message that there are still people out there who oppose the war and can be vocal in that opposition. I wonder how you figure "hundred or thousands" were turned off... Who did you poll? The majority of the country opposes the war and I doubt a little 15 minute protest with little-to-no violence is going to turn all of them off, not to imply that most workers in this country are alien to violence in defense of their class interests. It also assumes they were interested at all... the movement has been stale for years and this action was an attempt to put a little energy and life back in to it. You can fault it for not being the best way to do this, perhaps, but you can't fault it for trying. Unless you don't really care about the movement at all and just want to troll everything anarchists do... I think we've talked before.
I considered your question, and I don't think either option is mutually exclusive, nor are those the only options. Why should the struggle against war be "selfless?" It can certainly be a self-interested struggle- it isn't in my interests to have the government of the country I live in killing hundreds of thousands of people, suspending civil liberties, etc, etc. And that it is self-interested doesn't mean I am not willing to make sacrifices either. I'll risk actions that could land me in jail, but I don't see why I can't have fun doing that, either. Get off your pedestal.
guinea pig>
Dearest RunningOnEmpty,
21.03.2008 - 11:19
No one should feel the slightest bit guilty for halting an intersection for 15 minutes, for causing you the slightest inconvenience so long as streets in IRAQ are not merely disrupted for 15 minutes, but have been bombed for over 5 years and continue to be.
tout niquer>
Homepage:: http://mkeanarchy.bravehost.com/index.html
Dear Running on Empty:
21.03.2008 - 12:23
In response to these few comments:
I was there when the protester yelled at you. The protester attempted to be polite when he accidentally bumped into you by saying "excuse me", and you responded with "you're not excused" in a very disrespectful tone. The protester was attempting to be nice, that's why he got so angry.
Even though you may not be with us, you still deserve our respect. We can only hope that you would feel the same.
"If a peaceful petition-signing was held on the sidewalk at this corner it would have been much more effective. I would have signed it. Instead, I'm anti- anti-war."
Petitions have been tried before in the past...hundreds, maybe thousands. Just google "Petition to end war in Iraq"; the sites are endless. So what do we learn from this? Petitions don't always work, especially in this situation. That's great that you would have signed it, but it wouldn't have done anything. No one would remember. No one would be effected; which is the exact opposite of our goal.
"I know several people in the armed forces including a brave sergeant from Eau Claire who lost a limb. They deserve our support and respect. Not the same for these college kids on spring break. "
One of the reasons for this protest is to bring the troops home and assure that citizen's friends, like your own, don't have to endure such pain. But when you also think about it in retrospect, think of all of the innocent Iraqi citizens who have lost limbs or died because of this war. Both people are equal in their hurting, but we often forget those overseas.
mama>
9 to 5ers...
21.03.2008 - 12:28
A lot of the people who witnessed the blockade seem to be confusing the intentions of those present. The main desire was to shut down, if only briefly, the structure and normalcy of everyone at that intersection who's thoughts only go as far as their kin and what to feed them for supper, what to watch on tv that night, whether they should get another mortgage or buy that new plasma screen. You want to talk about privelege? You want to talk of middle-class ignorance? The folks who blithely reproduce the conditions of this fucked up world are the ignorant and priveleged ones. The folks who have spent the last 5 years muttering under their breath about how they're not so into this war and don't quite trust Bush, who aren't brave enough to take a stand, to flash their hatred for all that dominates us and embrace all that we love in the same moment are the folks who are privileged.
"If a peaceful petition-signing was held on the sidewalk at this corner it would have been much more effective. I would have signed it. Instead, I'm anti- anti-war." Well, congratulations, I'm sure the countless Iraqi dead as well as those brave troops including the sergeant who lost a limb are thrilled with your reactionary politics. Go back to shoveling papers around your desk and masturbating to dreams of world domination. Whether you're a "businessman" or not, the mere fact that you deny other folks their desire to foment rebellion to the status quo makes you an enemy. We do not court those who walk the corridors of power with ease, we wish to burn down those corridors and everything that defends them.
We have seen what pandering to the mainstream gets us and although we feel that there are millions of unhappy souls on these shores, we are also certain that insurrectionary actions and passionate displays of rebellion inspire more people every time they occur.
You can sit here and point your finger at those of us in the intersection as "young white kids" when in fact there were people of various ages and ethnic backgrounds present.As someone who was there Ido not deny that there is privilege, but rather than sit on my ass and denounce a diversity of tactics I do what Im able and understand other people's limitations and comfort levels.
And by the way, I DID go to college and in fact have a sociology degree and I feel that I wasted my time and MY (NOT my parents) money.
Give me total liberty...or nothing else.
Blackened brutality>
defense fund for arrested
21.03.2008 - 12:42
A legal defense fund is set up for people who were arrested to bail them out and pay for their court fees. Please donate if you can. Anything people can give would be helpful.
To donate to the defense fund please contact:
 mkeabc@gmail.com
MKE ABC>
 e-mail:: mkeabc@gmail.com
Front row observations
21.03.2008 - 13:05
I was there - front row. Blocked by a newspaper stand. Willingly put my car in park, pulled out my PDA to capture this as much as I could and took it in.
I commend you all first of all! Way to get noticed. Way to disrupt the corporate machine.
Police brutality is right. I watched as the cops pounced on the most vocal of the group. How many cops does it take? I am bummed the video wasn't better quality or might have had something good. I can hear one cop on the video say "I'll kill you muthafuckr." While a crowd of people watch - now that's a good display of patriotism. Well I suppose thats what they are teaching our soldiers too.
What happen to freedom of speech? Democracy?
You are all an inspiration. Bring the war home!
Nix>
What does "Whose streets? Our streets!" mean?
21.03.2008 - 13:33
During this action, afterwards, and even now I've been thinking a lot about the symbology, purpose, and consequences which surround yesterday's events (not just in Milwaukee, or the Midwest, all over the world).
Spontaneous street actions, in my opinion, serve one primary purpose: To cause disruption. The "businessmen", if anyone, should be the most excited and happy about that. If you're so upset about 15 minutes of dancing, fun, and interaction, upset enough to post on Indymedia, upset enough to violently confront protesters/party-goers in the street, I ask you... Why? Why are you angry enough to physically hit a teenage girl or call her a bitch? Why are you angry enough to stand on the sidelines scowling?
I also believe in the idea of "bringing the war home". In response to Dude, I think that's the only thing you got dead-on in your entire post. Sometimes to deal with issues of division and complacency, you need to actively seek a solution. In this case, our target was not a set group of people; it wasn't about the cops, minorities, businessmen, radicals, college students, or the mainstream media. Regardless of intent, I agree that it will form an impression on anyone who saw or heard of what happened in downtown yesterday.
One thing does need to be pointed out-- For all those out there who swear that people will never work together towards one common goal, will never unite to struggle, I urge you to look at this action. Not just what the anarchistsradicalswhatever were doing, but at the bigger picture. Were the businessmen, bus drivers, and commuters not working together to free the intersection of obstacles? To create a clear path towards a common goal? Although I really wish that goal had been something other than McDonald's happy meals and reality television, I'm think it's obvious that at least one boundary that divides the general population was broken. Out there. On the streets.
Needless to say, our initial audience lacked much diversity in class or race, most of the people spectating were middle aged and middle class. But, I won't forget the three people of color on the sidewalk who ran out into the street and joined us, rejoicing, regardless of what the ages, class, race, or social background seemed to be of the others in the group.
I know the boundaries broken and drawn last night were minimal in comparison to the ones that need to be faced (racism, sexism, capitalism, war, complacency, oppression of all forms and many more isms), but this was a rallying point-- I came out of this inspired, refreshed, and ready to take on all the inhibitions and learned traits that have kept me from being human since birth. Are you ready?
Please... Just think.
rugsnotbombs>
legal update
21.03.2008 - 17:18
All 3 people from osh kosh have had their charges dropped and are being released. This leaves possibly one other person still in jail.
MKE ABC>
Dear " RunningOnEmpty"
22.03.2008 - 15:23
Your distortions are hilarious.
Firstly, that "kid" who yelled at you for a block, didn't yell because you said "no" when he said "excuse me". He yelled at you because you mumbled it under your breath and walked away instead of saying it to his face. While he was yelling you ran away cowering and wouldn't face him.
How valiant of you.
Secondly, People didn't split at the first sign of police. The cops were stuck behind traffic and couldn't get at us for quite a bit of time. And we didn't just split, we went on a march. A march that directly confronted the cops and further created a disturbance.
and Thirdly, a "peaceful petition signing" would not have been effective at all. Our goal wasn't to win "businessmen" like you to our side; our goal was to ruin your collective days. Don't call yourself innocent. So long as you perpetuate capitalist order, you perpetuate the system that demands constant war.
By the way, you look like a goof-ball in photographs.
See ya'll soon
conflict>
THE REAL ERIK SPERLING
25.03.2008 - 11:02
Hello, this is Erik Sperling. Someone else made a post claiming to be me and Indymedia quickly removed it, thanks for that ‘mods.’ Also thank you Charles for coming to talk to me about the post on Sunday.
----------------------
And since a few individuals seem to have gotten pretty worked up from the fake post, I feel obligated to make a few additional comments for clarification:
---I can't remember the last time I made any sort of comment on Indymedia debating the effectiveness of a tactic or debating ideology. I decided it was not a productive use of my time well over a year ago. I rarely even visit this site. It seems some folks may have been attributing criticism this past year from other folks to me, and I am somewhat flattered (if you want to go back and ask me if I made a particular past comment, I'd be more than happy to clear things up, I've hopefully included my email below). Regardless, I'll be very clear now: I will never criticize people's actions or ideas on this Indymedia message board thing. I will likely continue to post upcoming events on the site though.
---The "smiles [&] handshakes" from me to the few ‘anti-authoritarians’ that I know in Milwaukee are definitely sincere. About the same time that I decided to stop wasting my time on here, I decided to try to find common ground or at least be friendly with folks who I may not be in 100% agreement with on every issue.
---I don't want to fight anyone. Fighting over stuff this petty kind of seems like meat-head shit to me, but I guess that's just my personal opinion. Anything I think folks would be interested in hearing I am always more than happy to 'say to their face,' but I typically assume that we'd just 'agree to disagree,' and go on minding my own business. I have never been punched in the face, by the way, outside of the Falcon nor anywhere else (a half dozen or so of older folks knocked on my door and threatened me a few years back (I was just out of high school, I believe), but we just chatted a bit and they left peacefully).
---There were many comments that were ideological in nature which I won't respond to on here. That doesn't mean anything said above is true or represents my beliefs (much less that the criticisms of my fake beliefs are relevant). If any of the above folks or readers want to hear from my what my actual political views are, contact me or come talk to me. I have absolutely no idea who any of the folks above are.
Well, I hope this cleared a few things up! Please contact me with any questions or thoughts (be brave though, nothing anonymous please. I won't hurt anyone if they reveal their identity. ;-)) For those of you who got emotional hating on the pseudo-me, please come talk to me, message me, or find me online somehow. All of hatred and anger is definitely not mutual.
Very truly yours,
Erik A. Sperling
Erik Sperling>
e-mail:: sperling.erik@gmail.com
Homepage:: http://www.progressivestudents.org
few clarifications from your friend
27.03.2008 - 15:30
The organizers of the March 15th rally that took place on Water and Wisconsin actually didn't work with the police at all. So someone said in a comment a little while back that the M15 rally worked very closely with the police. That's not true at all nor does it make any sense. Rush Limbaugh lies all the time--just making shit up--and I don't think any leftist or anarchist should do the same.
In addition, I hope the critical comments of the student rallies, including the coalition rally, don't represent a majority of opinion on here. A coalition of this magnitude on UWM campus is unprecedented, and I hope it will continue to grow in strength and planning. The March 13th rally was a great success, turning eleven students groups and dozens of individuals more into the antiwar scene, and we'll hopefully continue to grow--no thanks to those who resort to violent and illegal tactics that make the building of partnerships with minorities and working class people more difficult. And the March 15th rally was a brand new scene for Milwaukee, as students led a feeder march into the mass antiwar rally.
But nonetheless, its nice to see us all exploring new ways to bring the war home and do what we can to combat imperialism and capitalism--whether it is empowering students and holding a mass student feeder marches into a citywide rally, kicking war profiteers off one of the largest research institutions in the U.S., organizing a UWM campus coalition against war, or a fifteen minute dance around a tipped over dumpster.
DGJ>
Homepage:: http://progressivestudents.org
-
27.03.2008 - 17:50
dan,
how did you get so good at condescension??
->
violence
27.03.2008 - 22:05
"no thanks to those who resort to violent and illegal tactics that make the building of partnerships with minorities and working class people more difficult."
Some who involve themselves in illegality work with perfectly legal organizations as well. Nobody is trying to involve any one in activities they are not comfortable with, so I doubt it makes it difficult.
party animal>
dear DGJ,
27.03.2008 - 22:06
I didn’t see any mention of PSM working with the police, but what may have been referred to was the organizing of peace action, who do work with the police fairly obviously, to make sure things go as scheduled and planned. We can be sure that this is the desire of the police as well. In the past there have been occasions where people in peace action have clapped for being escorted by the state and have reported to them, well meaning people merely for looking like the might want or hint at breaching the suffocating barriers perpetuated by such pacified protest.
You talk of having hope for a lack of criticism regarding the coalition rally and M15 organizing, but cannot hold your condescension regarding the blockades of M20. If solidarity, coalition building, alliances, etc, mean the holding of tongues for the sake of mass and criticism that only goes one way, it is meaningless.
“we'll hopefully continue to grow--no thanks to those who resort to violent and illegal tactics that make the building of partnerships with minorities and working class people more difficult”
As has been said many times to such statements of such wishful thinking, the working class and oppressed are no strangers to violence and illegality. What would the working class be without the wildcat strike, sabotage, etc? What would the oppressed be without their disregard for legality? These are strengths, which are still seen as vulgar, uncontrollable, and ungovernable to organizers who wish to maintain their position as managers of those they claim to represent. Of all the people who had just happened to be on the corner of Wisconsin and Water on the 20th it was people of color who were most excited. It’s true there does need to be communication between communities and cultures, and it is much more likely violence and illegality will bridge that gap than this ritual that leftists repeat ad nauseam. Barriers will be broken down through class conflict, which is generalized through struggle for all people, rather than playing by these silly rules.
“But nonetheless, its nice to see us all exploring new ways to bring the war home and do what we can to combat imperialism and capitalism--whether it is empowering students and holding a mass student feeder marches into a citywide rally, kicking war profiteers off one of the largest research institutions in the U.S., organizing a UWM campus coalition against war, or a fifteen minute dance around a tipped over dumpster.”
Usually compliments do not involve condescension, it’s hard to tell, but if it is sincere it is appreciated. Not that the number matters much, it would have been fun if it had only been 15 minutes or just one dumpster, but it was at least 40 minutes throughout downtown and not one, two, three, but many things were pulled into the street and used as blockades. You don’t need much to shut down a city. This is what was important to present as an option. We could make everything (the war, capitalism and whatever stands in our way) stop if we wanted.
tout niquer>
Dance your joy and your sorrow too
28.03.2008 - 20:40
I am working at a war crimes tribunal, cleaning up some of the left over legal crap that is still lingering. I am here because I am anti-war. I have been busy reading descriptions of bombing and shelling of civilians, mass tortures, and exterminations. This same stuff has probably happened and is happening in Iraq. Some say it inevitably happens in any large scale conflict in which a lot of weapons are used.
So, although I am from a working-poor background, I am now a 9-5 suit type, and I am thankful that friends are still on the ground working against the war, since I can't be so often any more. I think this light-hearted dance is a great way to peacfully protest, and I commend the devoted thinktank that came up with the concept.
This minor disruption of traffic is nothing compared to the disruption in the daily lives of civilians who experience daily shellings simply because they may be located within some proximity to some legitimate target (or often, they are targeted precisely because it is an effective tactic of war to target and demoralize civilian populations). We all have a duty to act for peace in our daily lives and on a global scale. It may take practice, but it is possible to treat each other in ways that promote talking and respect for each other's humanity. Maybe by practicing these tactics on the ground we can promote these behaviors in the heads of state that have the ability to bring countries into or away from large scale armed conflicts.
Abuse of authority is a serious problem whether it comes from presidents of countries and commanders of armies, or the local police force. Police brutality is indeed a very serious problem in the United States. In other countries, local police forces have been the direct perpetrators of serious crimes, and they and their superiors have been found guilty by international tribunals.
ALL of these people who creatively and peacefully protested war are my heroes, precisely because of the risks they take with their health and legal status when they protest and risk being arrested or brutalized. Often, the holding conditions and process involved in a simple arrest threaten the health of arrestees and are designed to terrify, demoralize and humiliate them. The tyranny of abusive authority is something that must be addressed both on a local and global scale.
I am proud of you folks! Keep dancing against authoritative tyranny, because it shows you have something better to do than to help build that machine.
anonymous>
aloha akbar
30.03.2008 - 10:10
Sweet copypasta, dipshit.
How many terrorist bombings were there before the US invaded? Good work, mission accomplished. Fuck off.
islamic tea-had>
.
08.04.2008 - 17:41
"As has been said many times to such statements of such wishful thinking, the working class and oppressed are no strangers to violence and illegality."
This is true, but you can't separate them from their historical context. Direct action is only productive when it is connected up with a larger mass movement and supported by that movement. Thus it is only applicable when consciousness has reached a certain level.
It is from this position that Dan and myself criticize this action, as being isolated from any movement and, while some people might have found some form of entertainment in it, it did nothing to raise their consciousness or to actually move towards a meaningful goal.
"and it is much more likely violence and illegality will bridge that gap than this ritual that leftists repeat ad nauseam."
No it isn't. The former Nardonik tactics will never be a bridge in itself. The latter, well, it depends what you're talking about.
"We could make everything (the war, capitalism and whatever stands in our way) stop if we wanted."
No, you couldn't. Only a mass movement of workers can claim that role.
James>
dear james,
16.04.2008 - 20:52
"This is true, but you can't separate them from their historical context. Direct action is only productive when it is connected up with a larger mass movement and supported by that movement. Thus it is only applicable when consciousness has reached a certain level."
Please share some history with us that proves that "direct action is only productive when it is connected with a larger mass movement." Many individuals (many working class if that helps you) acting directly is a mass movement. The development toward illegality as revolutionary praxis is what allows the mass its teeth. Illegality is already a daily necessity for many people who live in poverty. It is not the plague as authoritarians and liberals would claim, but a tool used to further their autonomy. The state and capital will not help these people, they must take what they need regardless of laws. Their lives and dignity depend on it.
!>
.
17.04.2008 - 10:12
"Many individuals (many working class if that helps you) acting directly is a mass movement."
Well, yeah, when it is a mass of individuals, but that isn't what happened here and generally isn't what happens when talking about such actions. Generally illegal actions are carried out by a minority within a movement and, when used correctly, are used to complement legal action.
The historical references you ask me to present are so numerous that I would find it to be a waste of time to provide you with proof of such an obvious statement. You could probably take any anarchist or left-communist "action" as an example. The reason these are so isolated from the working class and their allies is because they don't recognize the need to actually lead working people to a level of consciousness where revolution is possible; they present their level of consciousness to the workers and say "take it or leave it". They expect these people to make a ridiculous jump in consciousness. Not surprisingly, it doesn't happen and these groups remain isolated.
"Illegality is already a daily necessity for many people who live in poverty. It is not the plague as authoritarians and liberals would claim, but a tool used to further their autonomy. The state and capital will not help these people, they must take what they need regardless of laws. Their lives and dignity depend on it."
Of course, but these daily actions have nothing to do with building an anti-capitalist (i.e. revolutionary socialist) movement. They are merely actions done because, as you said, they need to be done in order for them to survive. These actions, though, aren't what we're talking about here. We both know that.
James>
dear James,
19.04.2008 - 16:05
If generally actions are carried out by a minority within a movement, who’s to say that this wasn’t a minority with in it that complements the action? There were many illegal actions across the country against the war on the anniversary. The majority of the country is against the war in Iraq. Where is the contradiction? Perhaps in the fact that those who want a piece of the pie want to maintain the social order that orders war just as much as anyone, yet are naively against one of its symptoms (constant war).
I wouldn’t argue that this is what happened or that it’s necessary, for the reason that a situation in which all can act on their desires is the goal and it is forwarded and experimented with through active participation rather than calculation and hand wringing in wait for the proper dialectical moment for the vanguard party to intervene and lead the working class to victory. Since it is the bourgeoisie that seem to be pandered to in all this talk, we shouldn’t worry about it (who of all would be afraid of a questioning of the sanctity of property and legality?). Not to say that one should be careless in how they act, but this talk of mass that builds a prison around us is absurd. It could be more easily argued that the silly games of politics alienate this mass more than any tendency with disregard for legality.
It is through acting in this way (negating and disregarding) that it becomes accepted/remembered as another long lost possibility.
Up the social war!
!>
.
23.04.2008 - 09:23
"If generally actions are carried out by a minority within a movement, who’s to say that this wasn’t a minority with in it that complements the action? There were many illegal actions across the country against the war on the anniversary. The majority of the country is against the war in Iraq. Where is the contradiction?"
The people that are part of the anti-war movement need to be at a certain level as to support such actions. They are currently not. You're logic is ridiculously flawed; if you really want to use that logic as justification, why don't you go start setting off bombs or killing government officials? Why not just start the revolt right now? Do you really think it's as simple as that (hint: it's not)?
"Perhaps in the fact that those who want a piece of the pie want to maintain the social order that orders war just as much as anyone, yet are naively against one of its symptoms (constant war)."
And herein lies your problem. You consider anyone that doesn't support these tactics to be an apologist for capitalist rule without even looking at the reasons that people don't support it. You go and throw a brick through a window and block off a street and when the majority of the movement gets mad at you you scream "bourgeois apologists!".
The reason that you will not find mass support in this type of action is because of where the level of consciousness is at in the country; yet instead of fostering that consciousness and helping it move to a higher level and develop towards a revolutionary mindset you scream "revolution! revolution!" and try to skip that development process altogether. That is the reason that anarchists are always isolated from the movement; instead of helping lead these people towards a revolutionary mindset you present them with a revolutionary program and say "take it or leave it". The answer to that question is always leave it.
"I wouldn’t argue that this is what happened or that it’s necessary, for the reason that a situation in which all can act on their desires is the goal and it is forwarded and experimented with through active participation rather than calculation and hand wringing in wait for the proper dialectical moment for the vanguard party to intervene and lead the working class to victory. Since it is the bourgeoisie that seem to be pandered to in all this talk, we shouldn’t worry about it (who of all would be afraid of a questioning of the sanctity of property and legality?). Not to say that one should be careless in how they act, but this talk of mass that builds a prison around us is absurd. It could be more easily argued that the silly games of politics alienate this mass more than any tendency with disregard for legality."
This paragraph is just fucking ridiculous. First, "a situation in which all can act on their desires" is NOT the goal; that might be the goal of you and your anarcho-buddies, but the fact is that while you parade around in the middle of a street, tipping dumpsters over and acting like idiots, there are people out there that are starving to death or living on the verge of starving. I'm not concerned with "doing what I want". I'm concerned with building a movement to end the occupation and end capitalism. You go have your fun, I'll actually work towards something that makes sense (I wouldn't expect you to get involved, my politics are "boring as fuck" after all, right?).
As for the rest of the paragraph, well I think it's very telling of the anti-working class attitude that you and your buddies hold and really explains why your group will never get anywhere other than blocking off an intersection with 15 of your friends.
James>
corpse in the mouth
24.04.2008 - 19:28
“The people that are part of the anti-war movement need to be at a certain level as to support such actions. They are currently not. You're logic is ridiculously flawed; if you really want to use that logic as justification, why don't you go start setting off bombs or killing government officials? Why not just start the revolt right now? Do you really think it's as simple as that (hint: it's not)?”
And how is it exactly that people become supportive of illegality if it is not a practice (praxis) that develops and experiments to determine what makes sense for different contexts? This is something that has been said over and over again, yet you keep ignoring. If conflict is necessary, but always shied away from, how does it ever develop? Yes, for sure you can sell papers, reproduce ideology, build the organization, but how does this conflict with rather than reproduce the social order? We are not interested in being a mass and wasting our lives like so many have before us for the left wing of capital.
The secret is really to begin. It really is that simple. This does not imply that we should ignore the context and flail blindly throwing tantrums as you view it, but to be a part of the development of possibilities. We learn to act by acting, not talking about acting, and not waiting to act.
Illegality is integral part of any “movement” against legality. How fucking obvious right?
“That is the reason that anarchists are always isolated from the movement; instead of helping lead these people towards a revolutionary mindset”
It should be obvious that we don’t have the same goals. You want to be a leader, to transfer your ideology to the oppressed, so that they can stop being oppressed by the right wing of the state and start being oppressed by the left wing of the state. Are people really still interested in this garbage? You’ve proved quite well who it is who has contempt for the working class. What laughable fucking nonsense must flow from your mouth.
“People who talk about revolution and class struggle without referring explicitly to everyday life, without understanding what is subversive about love and what is positive in the refusal of constraints, such people have a corpse in their mouth.” -Raoul Vaneigem
tout niquer>
idiots
10.07.2008 - 16:18
What a bunch of idiots. Please explain to me how the blocking of a road relieves the war? Huh?
heathrow>
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